But 20-year-old budding journalism student Abbey was determined to hold power to account.
“People with a disability, like me, have a lower employment rate than those without a disability," she posed.
“So Anthony, I’m beautiful, I’m smart, I’m funny. So, can you please find me a job?”
Since it first aired this August, the ABC’s new series The Assembly has invited viewers inside the learning journey of 15 aspiring journalists with autism as they test out their interviewing skills on notable Australians, also including the likes of Hamish Blake, Sam Neil, Amanda Keller, and Delta Goodrem.
Under the mentorship of veteran journalist Leigh Sales, their unexpected and deeply personal lines of inquiry prompt tears, revelations and lots of laughs, with interviewees opening up in ways yet to be seen on national television.
Enveloped by production lights, looming cameras and a film crew, the students face a sensory mindfield that might, under normal circumstances, trigger complete overwhelm.
Yet we see only a group of enthused, engaged and emboldened young journos whose confidence seemingly only multiplies with each episode.
Behind the scenes, however, a careful set of accommodations is at play.
An initiative born out of a partnership between Macquarie University and Aspect Autism Friendly (ASPECT), the students are put through Australia’s first ever journalism course for autistic people.
Dr Tom Tutton, executive manager of ASPECT, tells EducationHQ the course curriculum that sits behind the show has been designed to meet their learning needs on every level.
It also seeks to rectify what has often been a troubled educational experience for many, he explains.
“On the very first day, when we had the 15 students join us, I said to everybody ‘I imagine that many of you have had bad experiences in previous educational settings’.
“And every single one of them put their hand up.
“I think it just tells you how the mainstream, traditional system, at the moment often doesn’t well support people who might be neurodivergent in any way, particularly autistic students as well, and (these) people bring bad experiences with them.
“We were very conscious of not [repeating] that, and making sure everybody felt included and supported right throughout the course,” Tutton says.
Students undertaking the course say the group became 'a family'. PHOTO: The ABC and Helium Pictures
To this end an ‘inclusion statement’ acts as a powerful tether that is repeated throughout the course, reaffirming students’ sense of belonging before the camera rolls.
Tutton says the team is very proud of this element.
“There’s a little [scene] at the beginning of each interview, where one of the students stands up and says, ‘This is a safe space. Everybody’s welcome. If you want to use any strategies to keep yourself focused or centered, like fidgeting, pacing, if you need to take a break, please do – and we use that at the very beginning of the course as well,” he shares.
All too often autistic students are made to feel uncomfortable for doing things that help hone their concentration and reduce anxiety, such as stimming (repetitive behaviours or motions used to help cope with emotions), moving around, fidgeting or taking a break, Tutton says.
He would like to see change on this front.
“[We] have actually done some research just looking at people’s ability to disclose, and telling people you’re autistic often brings around quite negative consequences in a whole range of different ways.
“And I guess a lot of learning, very traditionally, is about ‘sit still, look at me, focus in’ and doesn’t appreciate that, actually, what people might need to do is fidget with something just to be able to concentrate and participate,” he flags.
Highly structured with a focus on the practical application of skills, the introductory course has seen students trained under the guidance of seasoned journalists and Macquarie lecturers, the likes of Dr Helen Wolfenden, who lectures in radio, and journalism lecturer Tai Neilson.
“One of the things we learned about the students really quickly, is that they weren’t comfortable sitting for too long being lectured (to),” Tutton says.
“They wanted to get in and use the materials … and the great thing about Macquarie is they have a radio studio, they have a TV studio, so we could actually get in and do the fun, practical stuff that really makes you feel like you’re applying your learning in something that looks like the real world.”
Importantly, proper training ensured sensitivity and support flowed from all angles, Tutton adds.
“We trained everybody to understand autism and to understand the impact of autism in this kind of setting, particularly that double whammy of (undertaking) a new course, plus being filmed at every step…”
In a behind-the-scenes episode that aired last night, Sales asks one student, Silas, why he previously hadn’t been able to pursue a university education.
“I think a lot of it comes down to … the pacing of the education. I was like, ‘Can we do it? Can we do it?’
“And you’re trying to maintain focus, and it’s just sort of difficult to … connect with the coursework,” he shared.
Well aware that seeing yourself on-screen or hearing your own voice on the airwaves can prove confronting to the novice media personality, Tutton says the team were ‘very conscious’ of ensuring the students were well prepared for this.
“We actually did a pre-screening with just the students, the producer Mel and Leigh Sales, just because we wanted to have a safe space for the students to see themselves for the first time...
"They were really happy. They were happy [with how their] autism was presented so capably, and they actually were very comfortable with how that they’ve been edited and presented in the show as well.
"So, I think we could be really proud that they actually feel supported and feel happy, and many of them have already gone on to do some amazing things,” Tutton says.
‘Super useful’ is how one student describes the team’s efforts to mitigate sensory distractions throughout the experience.
“It was just like, if that was everywhere, then the planet’s accessible,” he says on the show.
Dr Helen Wolfenden (pictured above right) says being involved in the program has been one of the highlights of her career. PHOTO: The ABC and Helium Pictures
For the most part the budding journos ‘really enjoyed’ the entire tertiary stint, Tutton says.
“One of the biggest dilemmas we actually had on the course was the sadness of the students when it was all wrapping up, they didn’t want it to finish, because this is often one of the first kind of experiences that they had that was really good for them, where they’d been really encouraged.
“They actually connected and made friends with other people. So, they really didn’t want that to finish.”
There’s a few key takeaways for schools looking to bolster opportunities for children on the spectrum, Tutton adds.
“Certainly one is around thinking about offering autism-specific courses, which can be beneficial.
“There’s something special about getting a group of autistic people in a room together, where people kind of find their people and connect and support each other and lift each other up.
“And it means you can then curate your accommodations really nicely around that,” he says.
Partnering with autism specialists and organisations can also be an impactful means of adapting your programs and learning environments to be more inclusive, Tutton advises.
“There are some things to [implement] which are quite cheap and easy, [such as] making sure that everybody feels welcome with an explicit statement,” he says.
Managing the sensory environment is another crucial consideration, Tutton says.
“We did a show, and there’s obviously lights and cameras and microphones and all of that, but we tried to manage that as best as we could.
“We do provide encouragement for people, for example, to use noise cancelling headphones in case it gets too loud.
“A few times when [students] got overexcited, we had to manage the clapping and the cheering and made sure that if it ever got too much, we had a quiet space for people to go, without issue or without embarrassment.
“So, there are some things that really don’t cost that much, that people can do just to really try and make education experiences a lot more welcoming, a lot more productive."
Wolfenden says working in the project has been “one of the great joys" of her professional life.
More than 1 in 40 Australians are on the autism spectrum, with an unemployment rate for autistic individuals nearly three times higher than for those with disabilities and eight times that of the general population.
As for Abbey’s future and employment prospects, things are looking bright.
“[It’s just been] a great experience. I think it’s changed my life forever now, pretty much,” she says on the show.
